Stumbled across a video poker machine with a game I've never seen before:

Joker Poker that pays for jacks or better.

This is on a double super times pay machine (25 cent denom, 7 coins)

The paytable is as follows at 7 coins:

Royal natural 4000

5OaK 1000

Royal w/ joker 500

Straight Flush 250

4OaK 75

FH 35

Flush 25

Straight 15

3OaK 10

2 Pair 5

Jack or better 5

I cant find jacks or better joker poker in any of the available calculators online, I'm guessing because of the crap payout for 4 of a kind the game is only in the 97-98% range but I cant figure out how to calculate it :( Nonetheless it's definitely a fun game.

Any tips on how to analyze this? Thanks

Quote:royalHowdy everyone, long time lurker, finally got around to signing up.

Stumbled across a video poker machine with a game I've never seen before:

Joker Poker that pays for jacks or better.

This is on a double super times pay machine (25 cent denom, 7 coins)

The paytable is as follows at 7 coins:

Royal natural 4000

5OaK 1000

Royal w/ joker 500

4OaK 75

FH 35

Flush 25

Straight 15

3OaK 10

2 Pair 5

Jack or better 5

I cant find jacks or better joker poker in any of the available calculators online, I'm guessing because of the crap payout for 4 of a kind the game is only in the 97-98% range but I cant figure out how to calculate it :( Nonetheless it's definitely a fun game.

Any tips on how to analyze this? Thanks

You definitely guess wrong when it comes to the overall return of the game. The 4OaK is the only area that hurts, otherwise that would be a decent Joker Poker (Kings) paytable. 96.3848% return using this:

https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/analyzer/

As it stands above.

Now, I don't know how to get you the exact answer that you want, but what I do have some idea how to do is get close by making an extrapolation. According to the calculator for the Kings or Better game, the probability of getting Kings or Better is 0.140901, which is also the return that comes from that result. I would say that we could take this to mean, without making any other strategy changes than you almost always hold a pair of jacks or queens, that you double the frequency of Kings or Better and that is your approximate frequency of Jacks or Better. That would increase the return of the game by about 14% to over 110%.

Again, there would be some strategy changes (a few obvious) and a few other assumptions we could make. Straight Flushes and Flushes now become less likely because we are holding JJ or QQ over a four-flush or various straight flush draws. Royals become less likely (and wild royals) because we now hold JJ or QQ over certain draws of that type. 3OaK, 4OaK and 5OaK all become more likely because we are (naturally) holding more pairs.

If it sounds too good to be true...I'm not going to ask where this is at (PM me if you like) but are you sure it is a Class III machine and not a Class II?

https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/tables/double-super-times-pay/

the strategy is the same as the conventional video poker.

Assuming the multipliers and probabilities are the same as the usual DSTP game, the EV is 1.004126984 × b + 0.000921844 where b is the base game EV.

Quote:GaryJKoehlerAssuming a SF pays 250, the base game (Joker poker Jacks) EV is 1.0492. Seems too good to be true (again, assuming the probs and multipliers are the same as the normal DSTP game.)

Why is it not higher? Shouldn't the Kings/Aces probability just be doubled as a quick answer to account for the Jacks and Queens? It seems like it wouldn't affect what happens after the draws much, just the holding frequencies.

Quote:GaryJKoehlerProb jacks or better in a Jacks or Better Joker game is 0.224515 and in a Kings or better game the prob Kings or better is 0.141348, so not quite doubled - more like 1.6 times.

Thank you very much! Can you or anyone offer a guess as to why that might be? I'm coming up blank. I would say lots of 2P and Trips that you would be getting anyway, but that's also true of holding KK and AA. Could it maybe have a lot to do with the joker as well as a J/Q and another suited Royal card...especially with the downgraded return on 4OaK? Is it because more two card Royals with high cards get held? One would think that would increase frequency of all high pairs.

I always like to start with the intuitive and I'm just not figuring it. Any ideas?

Jacks Kings

RSF 0.000026 0.000025

5K 0.000093 0.000093

WRSF 0.000108 0.000105

SF 0.000604 0.000597

4K 0.008465 0.008499

FH 0.015584 0.015618

FL 0.015764 0.015893

STR 0.017907 0.016894

3K 0.13244 0.133207

2P 0.110637 0.110621

JB/KB 0.224515 0.140901

It is a class III machine. I think I can figure out how to get a good approximation of the value on this game by looking at the frequencies on some other games as some of you have suggested, sounds like a very consuming process but I will work on it when I have some time. I also have no clue on how to figure out the multiplier frequency.

I'm not going to drop the location just yet (sorry). If the game is indeed in the 110% range that would be awesome, but I doubt i'm that lucky haha.

I can't upload a photo for proof since I don't yet have 20 posts but here it is:

i67.tinypic*com/10gi9go.png

Quote:Mission146Thank you very much! Can you or anyone offer a guess as to why that might be? I'm coming up blank. I would say lots of 2P and Trips that you would be getting anyway, but that's also true of holding KK and AA. Could it maybe have a lot to do with the joker as well as a J/Q and another suited Royal card...especially with the downgraded return on 4OaK? Is it because more two card Royals with high cards get held? One would think that would increase frequency of all high pairs.

I always like to start with the intuitive and I'm just not figuring it. Any ideas?

I think the probability of JoB is not quite doubled because you will be throwing away some of the jacks/queens when you hold for bigger hands.

I.e. Jh-8c-9c-Tc-Jc

Since the combinations of kings or better are made up of 9 out of the 53 card, (4xK, 4xA and 1 Jok) adding in queens and jacks makes that 17/53 cards it's not quite double. I dont even have the slightest idea on where to begin calculating that part but maybe that has something to do with it?